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Anyone know the distinction between sets 10152-1, 10152-2 and 10252-3? They contain identical parts and the only difference I can see is in their name but this doesn't seem to be reflected anywhere else. When this set was re-released as 10155, there were at least a few mold changes. 

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The BL pages have good descriptions explaining the difference. Essentially is mostly due to different packaging when it was re-released over the years. Maersk also has a corporate change which affected the set. 

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Thank you. Looking at those notes, it appears the inventories will vary slightly for the 2006 version (10152-3) once we add stickers to the database (I'll submit CRs for those shortly) due to the name change from Maersk Sealand to Maersk Line. The only distinction between the -1 and -2 versions appears to be in packaging (they use the same stickers) so I'll suggest some note language to reflect that distinction. 

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Is this the only set where the set number changed when the packaging changed? Tower bridge for instance had a packaging refresh but is still 10214-1.

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No. While I am not sure it is comprehensive, one of the best listings I've found of these type changes is at https://brickset.com/sets/list-18333. The decision seems to have been made case-by-case by LEGO depending on how extensive the production change was. For example, WALL-E (21303) was fairly extensive but retained its set number. The changes to Shuttle Adventure (10213) were enough however to re-release the set as Shuttle Expedition (10231) - both a number and name change but with the contents of 10213 and its supplementary parts.

The history of the Maersk 10152/10155 is more extensive however due to changes in plans regarding the Maersk Blue ABS parts. Best as I've been able to piece together, the 2004 version (10152-1) used the last of the Maersk Blue ABS pellets in LEGO's inventory. Remember that Maersk Blue is a trademarked color of the shipping company and therefore wasn't used for any other LEGO purposes. However, LEGO outdid themselves in the design of 10152-1 and it sold like crazy (quickly selling out of the 10,000 sets allocated to LEGO [email protected]ome globally - another 4,000 sets were sent to Maersk for distribution to employees, contractors, etc as Maersk deemed fit). So much so, that LEGO wanted to continue with release of a modified colorway of the same set and held polls and internal discussions about switching to either Dark Blue or Dark Green to replace the Maersk Blue parts with Dark Blue being the most likely final decision. This activity likely led to some of the artwork that was used in the 2005 version. However, before this colorway ever entered production, Maersk agreed to pay for more ABS pellets for another production run which turned into 10152-2. To partially address legal questions over the announcements that 10152-1 would be the last-ever Maersk Blue parts and that it was a limited edition, LEGO shifted up the packaging for the 2005 release but reused everything else - parts, instructions, stickers, etc. However, since the new parts were made from a new batch of ABS pellets some consider this a slightly different shade from the original. I haven't found production numbers on 10152-2 and LEGO never a specific amount (likely due to the backlash over the previous year's "Limited Edition"). In 2006, Maersk requested a variant with the stickers and box re-branded to reflect the name change of the company from Maersk Sealand to Maersk Line. This version was only provided to Maersk (it was never officially sold via [email protected] but likely a few slipped out). By this point, the stock of 2x4 3001 bricks produced for the 10152-2 sets was running low, so rather than do a very low-volume production run just to make more, corporate contacted LEGO model shops at the various Legolands and obtained an old stock of 3001a 2x4 Maersk Blue Bricks (likely initially produced some time prior to 1990) and used those to complete the production run of 10152-3. A few years later, in 2010, with demand still high for a Maersk ship, LEGO released the 10152-3 version of the design to the general public, including a production run of new 3001 2x4 bricks. Likely, the demand for parts for 10155 and the 10219 Maersk Train was sufficient in quantity to justify the production run that hadn't be done in 2006. However, by the time of this re-release in 2010, thirteen parts in the original set had been redesigned and the newer mold variants were used (you can run a set compare on Rebrickable between 10152-3 and 10155 to see this list). This increased the set's part count by 2 since a twice-used window/glass combo that was considered as one part in 2006 was produced as two distinct parts in 2010. They also increased the price point by almost $45 between the 2004/2005 general release and the 2010 one. Apparently, the change in Maersk branding, part mound changes and price increase were enough in LEGO's corporate decision making to warrant a new set number. The last of the newer-batch of Maersk Blue ABS pellets paid for by Maersk in 2005 (as far as everyone knows) were used to produce the 10219 Maersk Train in 2011 (retired in 2012). When a new Maersk ship, the 10241 Maersk Line Triple-E, was released in 2014, a shift was made to Medium Azure (a color not-exclusive to Maersk and still in production today).

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From what I've read both online and in the pamphlet that came with 10155-1, the last of the original Maersk Blue color was used in the 2004 version of 10152-1.  A new color to be used as Maersk Blue was created by LEGO in 2005 and given the name Pastel Blue.  Based on this I have used Pastel Blue in the inventories for 10152-2 and 10152-3, and the later 10155-1 and 10219-1.  

The color that is displayed with the element IDs from lego.com for Pastel Blue seems different from the color of the parts I have from both 10155-1 and 10219-1. 

I am certainly open to discussion about this, but I will be on vacation for about a month and unable to use my parts for comparisons.  

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I have posted a pictures from the difference in color but it is so little that even the Light Bluish Gray differences then should be classified as a new color ore even the difference in Red.

 

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I have mixed feelings about introducing this as a new color. The information in the pamphlet from 10155-1 and the internal rename from Maersk Blue to Pastel Blue likely had more to do with legal activity surrounding how 10152-1/10152-2 were resolved. There were (at a minimum) three different supplies of ABS pellets used to make the color that existed in the Maersk sets. The first was used up to 2004 (there were likely various supplies over the years but the changes never raised a discussion). This batch was fully exhausted with 10152-1 and it was marketed as a Limited Edition and as the final supply. When that set sold well, LEGO was prepared to re-release it in 2005 as a wider release set with a different color-way (most likely Dark Blue) and likely either only licensed from Maersk or simply altered slightly and named something like "Container Ship". Maersk however is very protective of their unique color (holding multiple patents and trademarks on it). When the decision was made to release additional sets (both for public and Maersk use) in 2005, LEGO didn't want to spend the money to purchase another batch of single-use ABS and Maersk agreed to fund this limited purchase. Using this second batch for 10152-2 was the source of the legal challenges. Apparently, German law (in particular) is very specific about how you can market Limited Release products (like 10152-1) - perhaps even more than any LEGO lawyer knew before the release of the 2005 version (10152-2). Folks who purchased the limited run (10,000) of 10152-1 thinking they had snatched up the very last of this already exclusive and limited color were perhaps understandably upset when it 'magically' reappeared the next year. The use of the "Pastel Blue" moniker for these new parts served multiple purposes. It distinguished the subtle color difference for legal reasons (LEGO could continue to say all Maersk Blue as used by 2004, only Pastel Blue existed afterwards). Assigning it a new color name and ID also likely helped with internal inventory control and may even have been mandated since Maersk was supplying the new ABS. This was clearly a minimal order since it was only used to produce the parts for 10152-2 and some of 10152-3. However, there wasn't enough to warrant the extra run needed for all of the 3001 parts in 10152-3 and so the collection of older, clearly Maersk Blue 3001a parts (likely from pre-1990 stocks) was used. Since these sets were strictly for Maersk use and not being sold to the general public, they avoided the legal issues. The third supply of ABS in a very similar shade was again paid for by Maersk and likely was purchased sometime between late 2006 and 2010 (most likely late 2009/early 2010). This supply is what was used for latter, public release runs of 10152-3 and again for 10155-1 and 10219-1. As far as everyone knows, this was the end of that supply. Likely, since there were no pending lawsuits and the funding for the new supply was the same (Maersk), LEGO felt no need to rename/renumber this third, again subtly different shade. This change is likely why your parts don't match. 

So, we likely have three true colors - 1) Maersk Blue up to 2004, 2) Pastel Blue used in 2005 until about 2009 and 3) an unnamed version used from 2009-2011. All three were used exclusively for Maersk-branded sets. As @Nederbrik has provided, the shade difference is minimal - arguably less than that seen in shades of gray, red, brown or purple over the years. A large part of me thinks we shouldn't introduce a new color strictly to track the distinctions in three sets (10152, 10155 and 10219). I think this history is documented in the set notes of the the 10152 variants. If we do want to track the variations, we likely need three colors (let's call the 2009/2010 supply "New Pastel Blue"). We would also need a third inventory for 10152-3 which used New Pastel Blue 3001 parts. Unfortunately, it also likely would use a mix of Pastel Blue and New Pastel Blue for the remaining parts in those shades as supply was finished from the 2005 ABS stock and transitioned to production from the 2009/2010 supply. Likewise, we really don't know which parts in 10155 and 10219 (except for 3001) would make use of the Pastel Blue or New Pastel Blue.

Given the shades are so subtle, "Pastel Blue" was used exclusively for Maersk sets (and likely will never be used again for anything since the stock is believed exhausted again and LEGO/Maersk have already shown a willingness to change color as seen in 10241-1 in 2014) and the very name/color ID may exist strictly to be a legal distinction from the preceding Maersk Blue, I think this may best be served for Rebrickable as not being distinguished in the database. Making it a new color will impact the "Build" function for anyone trying to make any Maersk sets. 

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20 minutes ago, Retrieverfalcon said:

I have mixed feelings about introducing this as a new color. The information in the pamphlet from 10155-1 and the internal rename from Maersk Blue to Pastel Blue likely had more to do with legal activity surrounding how 10152-1/10152-2 were resolved. There were (at a minimum) three different supplies of ABS pellets used to make the color that existed in the Maersk sets. The first was used up to 2004 (there were likely various supplies over the years but the changes never raised a discussion). This batch was fully exhausted with 10152-1 and it was marketed as a Limited Edition and as the final supply. When that set sold well, LEGO was prepared to re-release it in 2005 as a wider release set with a different color-way (most likely Dark Blue) and likely either only licensed from Maersk or simply altered slightly and named something like "Container Ship". Maersk however is very protective of their unique color (holding multiple patents and trademarks on it). When the decision was made to release additional sets (both for public and Maersk use) in 2005, LEGO didn't want to spend the money to purchase another batch of single-use ABS and Maersk agreed to fund this limited purchase. Using this second batch for 10152-2 was the source of the legal challenges. Apparently, German law (in particular) is very specific about how you can market Limited Release products (like 10152-1) - perhaps even more than any LEGO lawyer knew before the release of the 2005 version (10152-2). Folks who purchased the limited run (10,000) of 10152-1 thinking they had snatched up the very last of this already exclusive and limited color were perhaps understandably upset when it 'magically' reappeared the next year. The use of the "Pastel Blue" moniker for these new parts served multiple purposes. It distinguished the subtle color difference for legal reasons (LEGO could continue to say all Maersk Blue as used by 2004, only Pastel Blue existed afterwards). Assigning it a new color name and ID also likely helped with internal inventory control and may even have been mandated since Maersk was supplying the new ABS. This was clearly a minimal order since it was only used to produce the parts for 10152-2 and some of 10152-3. However, there wasn't enough to warrant the extra run needed for all of the 3001 parts in 10152-3 and so the collection of older, clearly Maersk Blue 3001a parts (likely from pre-1990 stocks) was used. Since these sets were strictly for Maersk use and not being sold to the general public, they avoided the legal issues. The third supply of ABS in a very similar shade was again paid for by Maersk and likely was purchased sometime between late 2006 and 2010 (most likely late 2009/early 2010). This supply is what was used for latter, public release runs of 10152-3 and again for 10155-1 and 10219-1. As far as everyone knows, this was the end of that supply. Likely, since there were no pending lawsuits and the funding for the new supply was the same (Maersk), LEGO felt no need to rename/renumber this third, again subtly different shade. This change is likely why your parts don't match. 

So, we likely have three true colors - 1) Maersk Blue up to 2004, 2) Pastel Blue used in 2005 until about 2009 and 3) an unnamed version used from 2009-2011. All three were used exclusively for Maersk-branded sets. As @Nederbrik has provided, the shade difference is minimal - arguably less than that seen in shades of gray, red, brown or purple over the years. A large part of me thinks we shouldn't introduce a new color strictly to track the distinctions in three sets (10152, 10155 and 10219). I think this history is documented in the set notes of the the 10152 variants. If we do want to track the variations, we likely need three colors (let's call the 2009/2010 supply "New Pastel Blue"). We would also need a third inventory for 10152-3 which used New Pastel Blue 3001 parts. Unfortunately, it also likely would use a mix of Pastel Blue and New Pastel Blue for the remaining parts in those shades as supply was finished from the 2005 ABS stock and transitioned to production from the 2009/2010 supply. Likewise, we really don't know which parts in 10155 and 10219 (except for 3001) would make use of the Pastel Blue or New Pastel Blue.

Given the shades are so subtle, "Pastel Blue" was used exclusively for Maersk sets (and likely will never be used again for anything since the stock is believed exhausted again and LEGO/Maersk have already shown a willingness to change color as seen in 10241-1 in 2014) and the very name/color ID may exist strictly to be a legal distinction from the preceding Maersk Blue, I think this may best be served for Rebrickable as not being distinguished in the database. Making it a new color will impact the "Build" function for anyone trying to make any Maersk sets. 

Completely agree and please change it back to just Maersk blue so everybody can try to build the sets with the parts ordered on BL ore BO.

Otherwise indeed every color has to be split into periods beginning with Pink in a Old pink and the nicer looking Pink were the difference is much greater, these are from the Paradisa Sets, and that is not the new Bright Pink.

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Thea has done the research for this, so this particular case is hers to decide. I am not going to interfere with that, but I do have a general observation.

There are probably two dozen LEGO colors that we don't recognize as separate colors, and which are currently mapped to an existing Rebrickable color. If you look at our color table, all the double entries in the LEGO column represent at least one LEGO color we don't recognize as separate color. As an example, both LEGO colors 316 Titanium Metallic and 148 Metallic Dark Grey are mapped to Rebrickable color 148 Pearl Dark Gray.

Some of these LEGO colors are virtual, they were introduced in earlier versions of LDD, and removed again in LDD 4 (probably never used in real parts); some are only used for a single occasion (Metallic Red for a single minifig); but LEGO is increasing their color pallete again (consider the Sprayed Gold for the new Lunar Model Creator Expert), and if they re-use color IDs that are currently mapped to another Rebrickable color, we will be forced to split colors, like we did with Pastel Blue.

Obviously we can change the color of some parts in set inventories, and the resulting build problems with an owned set can be easily corrected by removing the set from your set list, and then adding it again with the newly changed inventory. However, we can never change colors in user's part lists.

So this basically reverts to the same discussion we had about the impact of inventory changes. Yes, if we correct an error in an inventory, your part collection may change. The same applies for color corrections. But arguing that we should stop correcting errors because it might impact part collections is both unattainable and discriminatory against new users, with small part collections.

Our users expect our data to be as accurate as possible, and rightly so, and many of you are actively helping us to correct any errors, for which we are very grateful. Sometimes these correcting can have a bigger impact then expected, and if we can, we will try to help you solve those problems.

But please, do not ask us to revert a warranted correction on account of part collection continuity, because such a request is basically asking us to stop correcting errors, and we can't do that.

Take care,
Simom

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Posted (edited)

We certainly can wait for Thea to return to resolve this. That said, I want to add a few more items here so that I (and others) can recall them when she returns in a few weeks.

First, I want to be very clear. I will ALWAYS argue for the most accurate database possible. I have strived to provide numerous updates in that vein (including the extensive set notes that related to 10152). If more research proves things have altered, I am all for making the change - regardless of the impact on my or anyone else's inventories. They'll just be more accurate as a result. However, change should be for accuracy and if found to be inaccurate should be reversed. I am not, and will not, ask for any change based on collection continuity. Changing strictly to account for LEGO re-use of a code (which does not appear to have happened in this case) should be carefully managed to not introduce erroneous impacts.

That said, colors in the LEGO community have always been contentious. The act of mixing dyes, plastics, various sources of product and various production facilities both internal and external to LEGO (amongst I'm sure 20 other variables) produces variations - some minor, some major, some intended, some unintended - all the time. Add to that the mapping difficulties of trying to map within the various online communities and software programs which have made decisions at various points in time with regards to aligning colors. Then add the passage of time and its impact on parts - fading, color absorption, different storage practices at different points on the planet. Finally, add in that we all have slightly differing color perceptions in each of our eyes. Given all that, I'm amazed we have been successful as we have been. So, I think the best we can do is to use as much available history and information as we can to understand the intended color of the manufacturer. Past that, there will always be variation. [Side note: the drum-lacquered gold that is new for some parts in the Apollo 11 Lander is actually already mapped as "Metallic Gold" and isn't a new color overall]

So, in the case of Maersk Blue vs. Pastel Blue, we should try to determine if LEGO intended to change colors at some point around 2005 when a new stock of parts was created from Maersk-purchased ABS.

Point 1: The color in question has been used since 2005 in the sets 10152 (three variants in the Rebrickable database, including one with two inventories), 10155 and 10219. 

Point 2: All three sets in question are specifically Maersk related. Maersk is so protective of their color that it is trademarked for some purposes. 

Point 3: There is no disagreement over whether the initial release of 10152-1 in 2004 used the same color as previous Maersk sets from 1974, 1980, 1985 and 1995. The Rebrickable color chart does not provide a LEGO Color ID for that color but it is considered as "Maersk Blue" in LDraw, BrickLink and BrickOwl. 

Point 4: The LEGO Bricks & Pieces service does not distinguish between the various versions of set 10152. In fact, the online building instructions service shows pictures of both versions 10152-1 and 10152-3, a launch date of 2004 (corresponding to 10152-1) and a manual that is clearly from 10152-3 (based on the changed Maersk naming on the side of the ship). Bottom line, officially LEGO considers all versions of 10152 to be the same product. The color for parts in this system is Pastel Blue. 

Point 5: The LEGO Bricks & Pieces service also uses Pastel Blue as the color for parts in sets 10155 and 10219.

Point 6: Only one Maersk set prior to 2004 can be located in LEGO Bricks & Pieces (Set 1831) and unfortunately, there are no blue shaded parts (under any name) available for examination.

Point 7: While it is known that some versions of 10152-2 used part 3001a "old-style" 2x4 Bricks sourced from a Legoland model shop, no known color variation from the other blue shaded colors in that set has been mentioned.

Point 8: There were legal challenges related to the 'limited edition" claims of 10152-1 following 10152-2's release. 

Point 9: The informational pamphlet included with set 10155 (https://www.lego.com/biassets/bi/4591606.pdf) has the following quote from Set Designer Henrik Andersen:

Quote

What has been the most difficult thing about making the LEGO Maersk Ship?
The colour, without a doubt. The light blue Maersk colour is not one of the “traditional” LEGO colours. I therefore had to go down to a hobby shop and have paint mixed in the right colour, which I then used to hand-paint the first model of the ship. Fortunately we still had nine tonnes of plastic granulate with the correct light blue colour in storage at the time, so there was enough to produce the first limited- edition version of the ship. The light blue colour has since been added back into the LEGO range – but only for use in LEGO Maersk models.

Based on these points - the quote in particular - I believe it was LEGO's intent, in keeping with Maersk desires, to produce a single color for all versions of Maersk products pre and post 2004 up until the mutually agreed change for set 10241-1 in 2014. Given that Rebrickable does not have a LEGO color id mapping for Maersk Blue (only one for Pastel Blue - the very low numbered 11) and that Rebrickable only has color mappings for other services (LDraw, BrickLink, Brick Owl) for Maersk Blue (and none for Pastel Blue) on those services, this appears to more be a case of disagreement over naming. There is no question some variation of color, albeit minor, may have occurred from the new supply batch in 2005. However the intended color seems to have remained the same. The naming and numbering of that color may have altered due to internal business and legal reasons at LEGO. For Rebrickable purposes, there does not appear to have been an intentional plan to change the color midway through 10152 production (namely at the shift from 10152-1 to 10152-2) and there is a clear quote of intent to continue using the same color for 10155. This would seem to argue that this is a case for merging Pastel Blue and Maersk Blue.

Edited by Retrieverfalcon
Typos

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