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Proposed Numbering Changes To Minifig Parts - We Need Your Feedback!

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After some internal discussions, we are considering making more changes to Rebrickable's numbering system for minifig parts (an overview of previous changes can be found here). Specifically, we are thinking of changing the way we number, and assign colours to, hip assemblies and torso assemblies. Below, we will discuss how we currently number and colour the various minifig parts and what changes, if any, we propose. Note that this will be a fairly lengthy and technical discussion, for a TL;DR you can skip to the summary at the end.

 

N.B.: In the below, we use the notation [x] to indicate that x is optional, and the notation {x, y} to indicate that x and y are alternatives.

 

Minifig heads

 

Minifig heads are numbered in the format 3626{a,b,c}[prXXXX]. Minifig heads with a solid stud on top use the base number 3626a, those with a hollow stud on top use 3626b, and those with a recessed stud use 3626c. As explained here, the optional prXXXX part indicates the exact print of the minifig head using the so-called Decoration ID, which in turn is derived from LEGO's Element ID information. Hence, a printed minifig head with a hollow stud on top and Decoration ID 1234 is numbered 3626cpr1234. The base colour of the minifig head (often 'Yellow') determines the colour of the printed head. No changes are necessary here.

 

Hip assemblies

 

Secondly, let us consider hip assemblies (i.e., combinations of hips + two legs). There are three major groups that can be discerned here: hip assemblies with uniformly coloured hips and legs, hip assemblies with two identical legs, and finally hip assemblies with two dissimilar legs.

 

Hip assemblies with uniformly coloured hips and legs

 

These hip assemblies are numbered in the format 970c00[prXXXX] and are assigned a colour based on the colour of the entire assembly. For instance, a hip assembly with black hips and legs is numbered 970c00 and assigned the colour 'Black'. As above, the optional prXXXX part indicates the exact print of the assembly using a Decoration ID. For example, if the above assembly with black hips and legs had a print with Decoration ID 1234, it would be numbered 970c00pr1234 (and still be assigned the colour 'Black', obviously). As for the minifig heads, we don't propose any changes for hip assemblies with uniformly coloured hips and legs.

 

Hip assemblies with two identical legs (but different coloured hips)

 

Currently, hip assemblies with two identical legs but different coloured hips are assigned a colour that matches those of the hips, and are numbered in the format 970cXX[prYYYY], where XX is a colour ID (CID) that identifies the colour of the legs according to BrickLink's colour scheme. For instance, a non-printed hip assembly with black hips and red (CID 05) legs is numbered 970c05 and assigned the colour 'Black'. As above, the optional prYYYY part indicates the exact print of the assembly using a Decoration ID. For example, if the above assembly with black hips and red legs had a print with Decoration ID 1234, it would be numbered 970c05pr1234.

 

This all seems simple enough, but there's a catch. The above system, which dates back to Peeron, assumes that the colour of the entire hip assembly is determined by the colour of the hips, and the number of the base assembly (i.e., the XX in 970cXX) is determined by the colour of the legs. As you might know, LEGO fairly recently started supplying additional information about their parts using their Element ID system, including the colour of the parts. It turns out that LEGO assigns colours to non-uniformly coloured hip assemblies based on the colour of the legs (to be exact, the left leg), rather than the hips. For example, a printed hip assembly with black hips and red legs should have the colour 'Red' according to LEGO, and not 'Black', as in the current system. Since we would prefer to use LEGO's colouring scheme, this also makes it impossible to correctly link printed hip assemblies (coloured according to LEGO) with their respective base hip assemblies using the 'Print' relationships, since there will be a colouring mismatch between the legs and hips.

 

To fix these issues, and to follow LEGO's lead, we now propose to change the numbering (and colouring scheme) for hip assemblies with two identical legs as follows: 

  1. All the base hip assemblies (970cXX parts) will be renamed to refer to the colour of the hips, rather than the colour of the legs. For instance, 970c05 'Hips and Red Legs', which currently denotes a non-uniformly coloured hip assembly with red legs, will, in the new system, denote a hip assembly with red hips ('Legs and Red Hips').
  2. The numbering of the printed hip assemblies (970cXXprYYYY parts) will be based on the numbering of these new base assemblies, and will be linked using approriate print relationships. For instance, a new printed hip assembly with red hips will be linked with base assembly 970c05, and will be numbered 970c05prYYYY. Obviously, this assumes that there is a base assembly with matching colours, if not, we assume its existence by using an appropriate 970cXX prefix in the number of the printed part, and leave out the 'Print' relationship. 
  3. The colouring of the hip assemblies will follow the colouring scheme dictated by LEGO. For instance, a new hip assembly with yellow legs will be coloured 'Yellow'.
  4. The mapping system will be extended to be able to map <Part, Colour> combinations rather than Part to Part. For instance, a 'Red' 970c01 'Hips and White Legs' part on BrickLink will be mapped to a 'White' 970c05 'Legs and Red Hips' part on Rebrickable. Alternatively, a 'Black' 970c01 'Hips and White Legs' part on BrickLink will be mapped to a 'White' 970c11 'Legs and Black Hips' part on Rebrickable (since the CID of 'Black' is 11).

To give a more concrete example of what this change will look like, consider the BrickLink part 970c01pb05 'Hips and White Legs with Dark Blue Apron with White Stripes Pattern'. As you can see, according to BrickLink, this part was only released in the colour 'Dark Blue', i.e., the hips are coloured 'Dark Blue'. LEGO has assigned Element ID 4652820 to this part and colour combination, which encapsulates the following information:

(
    [ItemNo] => 4652820
    [ItemDescr] => MINI LOWER PART "NO. 292"
    [ColourLikeDescr] => White
    [ColourDescr] => WHITE
    [MaingroupDescr] => Bricks, Special
    [DesignId] => 99742
)

From this we can derive that the Decoration ID is 292 (mentioned in the ItemDescr) and that the LEGO colour is 'White' (since the legs are white). As the hips are coloured 'Dark Blue' (CID 63), the derived number for this part in the new numbering system will be 970c63pr0292, and the assigned colour (following the legs' colour) will be 'White' rather than 'Dark Blue'. Consequently, BrickLink's 'Dark Blue' 970c01pb05 will be mapped to Rebrickable's 'White' 970c63pr0292.

 

Hip assemblies with two dissimilar legs

 

Hip assemblies with two dissimilar legs (for example, two differently coloured legs or one regular leg and one 'piratey' peg leg) are currently numbered in the format 970dXX[prYYYY]. Unlike the numbering for hip assemblies with two identical legs, here the XX does not refer to any colour codes or something like that, instead, it's more or less simply a sequential number to keep track of the various assemblies released throughout the years. The colour of the hip assembly is currently, just as for the other hip assembly types, determined by the colour of the hips. For example, a 970d02 'Hips and 1 Blue Left Leg, 1 Black Right Leg (Dragon Masters)' part with red hips would be coloured 'Red'. Unfortunately, just as for hip assemblies with two identical legs, LEGO assigns colours based on the colour of the left leg rather than the hips. This means that for the above example part, LEGO would assign the colour 'Blue' rather than 'Red'. Again, this also makes it impossible to correctly link printed hip assemblies (coloured according to LEGO) with their respective base hip assemblies using the 'Print' relationships.

 

The solution is, again, to change the numbering and colouring of hip assemblies with two dissimilar legs:

 

  1. For non-printed hip assemblies with two dissimilar legs, we will keep using the various 970dXX assemblies, as the XX part does not imply any colour, but is simply a sequential number. We will change the name slightly to place emphasis on the left leg rather than the hips (since the colour assigned to a full assembly depends on the colour of the left leg); for instance 970d02 'Hips and 1 Blue Left Leg, 1 Black Right Leg (Dragon Masters)' will become 970d02 'Left Leg, 1 Black Right Leg and Red Hips (Dragon Masters)'.
  2. For printed hip assemblies with two dissimilar legs, the numbering will be based on the base assemblies where available. For instance, a print of 970d02 with Decoration ID 1234 will be numbered 970d02pr1234. Obviously, a 'Print' relationship with 970d02 will also be added. In case a base assembly with matching colours is not available (this happens quite often for printed hip assemblies with two dissimilar legs), we simply assign a new 970dXX number in sequential order and 'reserve' its spot among the base assemblies, should it ever be released. This is also the way BrickLink handles such cases. No 'Print' relationship will be added in this case. 
  3. The colouring of the hip assemblies will follow the colouring scheme dictated by LEGO. For instance, a new printed hip assembly with a black right leg and a yellow left leg will be coloured 'Yellow'.
  4. As was the case for hip assemblies with two identical legs, cross-part mappings are required to handle the mappings between BrickLink (which bases the colours of the hip assemblies on the hips) and Rebrickable (which bases the colours of the hip assemblies on the left leg).

Torso assemblies

 

The numbers assigned to torso assemblies are all of the format 973[prXXXX]cYY. The observant among you will notice that for printed torso assemblies, the cYY part comes after the prXXXX part, unlike the numbering format for hip assemblies. The reason for this is historical, as this numbering format was first used on BrickLink (except BrickLink employs p/px/pb rather than pr). At BrickLink, the cYY part is nothing more than a sequential assembly number assigned to the various possible assemblies of torso 973[{p,px,pb}XXXX] + arms + hands. Compare, for example, 973pb1715c01 and 973pb1715c02. Note that the torsos have the exact same print, but the colouring of the arms and hands is different. This also means that there is (usually) no colouring relationship between printed torso assemblies and unprinted torso assemblies with the same cYY affix; compare for instance printed torso assembly 973pb1715c02 with unprinted torso assembly 973c02, clearly the arms and hands are coloured differently.

 

LEGO's colouring scheme for torso assemblies, as is our current colouring scheme, is based on the colour of the unprinted torso. Hence, we will not change the way we colour torso assemblies. We are considering changing the way torso assemblies are numbered though, for three reasons. First of all, the Decoration IDs we use do not only uniquely identify the torso print, but also identify the exact colouring for the arms and hands. That means that there will never be two torso assemblies with the same Decoration ID but differently coloured arms and/or hands. Consequently, the YY in the cYY affix is not needed as an assembly number: 973pr1234c01 and 973pr1234c02 would designate the exact same torso assembly (assuming 1234 is a valid Decoration ID). Secondly, as pointed out above, there is no colouring relationship between printed and unprinted base assemblies using the same cYY affix, which might confuse end users, and it makes it harder to set up correct 'Print' relationships. Thirdly, and perhaps most importantly, placing the cYY affix at the end of the part number is inconsistent when considering the numbering format for leg assemblies, which may also be confusing.

 

A simple fix for all three 'issues' mentioned above is to keep the cYY affix but to move it in front of the prXXXX part of the number, and change its meaning for printed torso assemblies: it now simply indicates which unprinted torso assembly it is based on, i.e., which unprinted torso assembly has the exact same colouring for arms and hands. For instance, 973c01pr1234 would be a 'Print' of 973c01. If there is no such unprinted torso assembly, we simply assign a new 973cXX number in sequential order and 'reserve' its spot among the base assemblies, should it ever be released. As a further example of this change, consider BrickLink part 973pb1647c01, which has 'Dark Blue' arms and 'Black' hands, and Decoration ID 2493. The base unprinted torso assembly for this part is 973c53, which has the same colouring for arms and hands. Hence, after the change, this part would have the number 973c53pr2493. At a glance, one can see that this is a print of 973c53, and the redundant sequential assembly number is done away with. Furthermore, this number is consistent with the numbering scheme for hip assemblies.

 

How these changes will be applied

 

If these changes are carried out - we're not sure yet, and are looking for your feedback, see below - they will be rolled out more or less in four stages:

  1. First, the 970cXX base hip assemblies will be repurposed towards identifiying an unique hip colour rather than a unique leg colour. This will break the current 'Print' relationships where present (though the majority of those pointed at the wrong base hip assemblies to begin with).
  2. New molds will use the new numbering and colouring schemes immediately. Their 'Print' relationships will also be set correctly.
  3. Older molds will be updated on a year-by-year basis, starting with the parts in 2014 and working backward.

Summary

 

We are considering changing the way we number and assigns colours to hip assemblies and torso assemblies, for three reasons: to bring our colouring scheme in line with LEGO's official colouring scheme, to streamline the numbering format, and to enable us to add appropriate 'Print' relationships between printed parts and their matching unprinted base parts. The most conspicuous changes, if carried out, will be as follows:

  • All the base hip assemblies (970cXX parts) will be renamed to refer to the colour of the hips, rather than the colour of the legs. For instance, 970c05 'Hips and Red Legs', which currently denotes a non-uniformly coloured hip assembly with red legs, will, in the new system, denote a hip assembly with red hips ('Legs and Red Hips').
  • All the hip assemblies will be assigned colours based on the colour of the left leg rather than the hips.
  • All the torso assemblies will be numbered in a new format. The old format was 973prXXXXcYY, where XXXX is a Decoration ID and YY a sequential assembly number. The new format will be 973cZZprXXXX, where 973cZZ is the number of the unprinted version of the torso assembly.

Your opinion counts!

 

As we've mentioned multiple times, we are considering making these changes, nothing is set in stone just yet. We are very curious to hear your opinions on this matter, and will definitely take them into account. So, fire away below!

 

- The Rebrickable admin team

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Sounds good, except for the color ID part, all colours in the exemples is using BL color ID's which is a bit confusing if your moving away from them. Shouldn't you be using your own or LEGO's?

 

also if this should work you can't have a color with ID 0. or the full coloured legs with that particular color will clash with the hip of that color + any other colored legs. either remove the 00 from the full colour or change for the color with ID 0. and leave that as "inherited color from main subpart".

 

I also think you will have to work as hard with torso naming as you did with hips. and not just leave it with cXX,

 

Print before combination is fine, you can continue down that path.

 

Making a uniformed naming system for subparted parts is essential now before you guys start rolling out that. it should apply over all combined parts not be specific for these minifig parts

 

So good work, but you haven't reached the goal yet imo.

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when I think about it you might not want to deal with full coloured assemblies different from half coloured at all it just open up for ambigious parts. or how are you preventing people form using red hips assemblies with red colour? remove that colour from the pick option? Murphy's law applies here. if you can do something wrong someone will do it eventually.

 

that would mean a need for a more intelligent website that knows about the naming system and don't just list the parts.

 

I think the later would benefit in the long run but it's also a bit of extra work.

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We won't use a colour with ID 0, so that's not an issue. We won't break down torso assemblies any further since you can't reliably remove the arms from the torsos without (slightly) damaging the 'sockets'.

 

As for people using 'unauthorized' colour combinations: we can simply look more closely at how minifig parts are used in MOCs, so that's not a big issue either. If they insist on using wrong colour combinations in their loose parts lists that's their own loss :P

 

Edit: on second thought, you've got a point: why bother treating uniformly coloured hip assemblies differently? That's something we will definitely discuss.

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Edit: on second thought, you've got a point: why bother treating uniformly coloured hip assemblies differently? That's something we will definitely discuss.

 

The reason I see is that it would treat it as ONE part instead of having the user look around for the cXX number for that colour. we must assume that most user don't know colour ID's by heart. it might also mess up any conversion table system you have in place. if it also need to look on the colour to determine the new part ID.

 

Nathans new warning symbols would of course highlight the user who suffer from murphys law. making it easier for the approver to see those errors.

 

 

when it comes to torsos, yes user shouldn't design their own combines, in that case we could use the subparts alone. however there is alot of variations of arms and hands. and the colour ID can't do the trick good enough. I suggest following:

 

c00 is a Torso with same colour on arms and Yellow hands (basic torsos)

cXX is a Torso with XX colour arms and Yellow hands

d00 is a Torso with both arms and hands in same colour as the torso. (space torsos mostly)

dXX is a Torso with XX colour arms and hands in the same colour as the torso. 

eXX is a Torso with XX colour on arms and hands

zXX is a Torso with a special combination of arms and hand colours. XX is no longer a colour ID it's a unique combination ID.

 

a side note if you use this pattern you should use a "z" instead of d for the hips aswell. so we know that z is a very specific letter.

 

the system above do suffer from ambigious entries such as the yellow space suits, I think the catalog admins can handle these and see which pattern that suits each indvidual torso such as the space torsos probably benfits most by staying in d even when in yellow.

Edited by biodreamer

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another side note there is atleast three torso molds, if I went and look closer I would probably find more.

 

a (nothing inside) (70's torsos)

b (stud holder, blocks any centered stud) (80's-90's torsos)

c (curvy X looking mold, there is atleast  two tiny varations of this one) (newish torsos)

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We will not bother distinguishing those torso variants. Adding more different kinds of assembly numbers to exactly indicate what colour arms/hands are used might be something we do in the future, if the need arises, for now we will just stick with the cXX format.

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I don't see why each part should have it's own definition of nameing. have one that you can apply to any combined part instead. if it's two colours, three colour combinations the combo letters increase but they stack nicely together in a single part entry in most cases. same system should apply for all parts may it be hips, torsos, motorcycles, hinges, turntables or whatever.

 

another gain by the above system is the colours get better combined into a single part rather then each colour get their own part.

 

so all the classic space torsos get into one single part.(d00) No need to say black arms and black hands, another entry with red arms and red hands and so forth.

 

it give us user's a better overlook on them at the same time. it also allow the same colour replacement as normal parts.

 

Futuron torsos is a bit trickier to stack properly but you could if you really wanted too have a system that allow it. mine didn't but these are the entries that should define the rules.

 

sure you already got part relations, sometimes it's nice to have everything on one plate instead of spread out.

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I believe I've seen this before. My opinion on the matter is that it doesn't matter. What I really want is one standard so that I can easily find a part on any site. Given that I'd be inclined to use brinklink's naming because that is what you are going to use it with the most. (Actually my preference is for ldraw IDs but that's not really applicable to minifigures I don't think since the hip and leg pieces are separate.) Changing because lego uses the color of the left leg instead of the hip seems like a needless change. Yeah it would be great if the community part IDs and lego part IDs matched but lego missed the chance for that.

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Actually, our numbering scheme is already different from BrickLink's, as we prefer to use LEGO's own numbers/colours as much as possible. However, because we aim to map all our parts to BrickLink's numbering scheme as well, you can still look them up using BrickLink's numbers.

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Hi

 

I have 2 question maybe answered elsewhere (i did not find it) but will there be a button in my part lists where i can say do not show minifig parts.

It is becoming to much in my lists to show every minifigs in 4 to 6 pieces when i look at my parts list sorted by color.

I have over 300 of them in sets and over 100 loose.

 

Will there also be a way to show my minifigs now that they are broken up in pieces as complete ones, just as on brickset.

I can nowhere see which loose figures i have, i use brickset to look at my minifigs.

But all parts are loose they are also consument by new sets i made out of my loose parts so my figs are in a few days no longer complete.

Will there be a solution for this, for me a second part list does not work to maintain my minifigs.

I  just want to see here on rebrickable also my loose minifigs and on a way the parts can not be used for other sets.

 

On brickset i also maintain my sets and minifigs but no loose parts there, i want 1 website for all my collections.

Will that be possible on rebrickalble, i do not need a picture of the minifig only the possabillity to save them as owned in my collection.

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That is something we are currently considering. Minifigs would become assemblies, and the various minifig parts would become subparts of these assemblies. You would then have an option to show assemblies as assembled parts, or as loose parts. This goes for other assemblies than minifigs as well.

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Minifigs would become assemblies, and the various minifig parts would become subparts of these assemblies. You would then have an option to show assemblies as assembled parts, or as loose parts. This goes for other assemblies than minifigs as well.

 

That would be awesome!

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